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Crane paper #410 and learning Fluid Mechanics

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❶Surapaneni Sudhakar marked it as to-read Nov 10,

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I dare say that Navior Stokes equations are not only impractical, but they can't even be used in principal. I say this because I'm not aware of any CFD analysis which takes surface roughness into account, though with that, it may be possible in principal.

So there is no other method by which to calculate pressure drops, flow rates and other phenomena which is based strictly on fundamental principals because it is too complex. I think the problem here is that one needs to review the material and understand it before one can comment on it's validity and how well it serves to educate the individual engineer on basic principals.

In fact, it's exactly this issue, it's ability to provide tremendous insight into pressure drop through a system that makes it so useful. Such things as 'friction factors' correspond directly to real world methods of manufacturing pipe. The concept that a bend or elbow, and how sharp that change in fluid direction is, directly affects pressure drop is a powerful understanding that is provided by the text, equations and graphs.

The way a valve is designed, be it globe, ball, gate or otherwise, and how it affects the fluid stream is better understood through the Crane paper. And further understanding is gleaned by examining how sudden contractions and expansions affect flow through those restrictions. The Crane paper is a bit more than a reference manual or handbook.

Yes, it is that for sure. It does provide a vast amount of information used to calculate fluid flow. But it also provides valuable insight into flow that one could not obtain otherwise. Take for example a flow problem: The Space Shuttle needs to fill the liquid hydrogen tank in 1 hour, then maintain that liquid level to within 1 percent while the cryogenic fluid boils off.

This is a fluid flow problem that's combined with first law thermo, heat transfer and other fields of engineering. The Lockheed Martin engineers that designed the liquid hydrogen transfer system used the basics of the Crane paper, I can assure you. They have a Fortran program or did as of 9 years ago that relies very heavily on the Crane paper. Other analysis includes looking at how two phase flow through pipes has been emperically modeled. The only way of determining the pressure drop and flow through that piping system is per the methods of the Crane paper and other additions to it that folks all over the world have created.

You can't use anything else. There are no other fundamental principals which can be applied to accurately describe the fluid flow. You can't perform a CFD analysis on it, it would be incomplete and inaccurate. It wouldn't take into account the surface roughness of the pipe walls, though that might be something one could overcome with significant study.

And all this wealth of knowledge one can display on a computer screen with pressure drops through each portion of the system giving the engineer a keen understanding of what in the system needs to be adjusted in a matter of minutes whereas the CFD analysis would take a few orders of magnitude longer to accomplish, leave out important information, leave you with an inaccurate result, and leave you with no better understanding of what changes need to be made to the system to ensure the Shuttle tank fueling system meets the requirements.

I guess this is where I am going to have to disagree with you Clausius. Giving Crane as a reference is a very acceptable practice.

I know of many engineers who use it and cite it. The fact that someone who the data is quoted for may not understand the underlying concepts is possible, but, as my profs used to always say "we leave the derivation as an exercise to do on your own. Things change much too quickly and the time spent by someone else on the CFD would be, essentially, wasted. Now, if you're talking a large installation, a compressor or equally complicated system, then yes The time investment in the system warrants it.

I am just saying that CFD analysis isn't always a viable option. I cite them as others do quite often. Clausius, thanks for the info on surface roughness options in Fluent, I stand corrected. Then in principal, one can in fact model a piping system using CFD. Regarding the applicability of Crane, please note it is a tool for internal fluid flow, especially for piping systems containing valves and other restrictions.

It is not used for flow across a fuselage or external flow. It isn't intended for calculating the pressure distribution inside a turbine or expander either, though it certainly could be used for nozzles and diffusers as long as conservation of momentum and thermodynamic principals are also applied.

I've used it as part of an analysis to design an eductor, so it is applicable for other things. I'd recommend you also get a copy and read it through with an open mind. Ask yourself as you go through it if it really is just a handbook filled with equations that give you answers to fluid problems or perhaps you may see the underlying thought and empirical work that went into these correlations and equations. I tend to see the later.

I also have to question if CFD is good way of understanding the fundamentals of fluid flow. Aug 2, FredGarvin , Aug 2, Wow, there's some pretty good discussion going on here chaps!

Thanks for the comment Brewnog. It seems you and Clausius read that comment in a way not intended. I'm not sure why. Minh Nguyen added it Sep 11, Surapaneni Sudhakar marked it as to-read Nov 10, Robin marked it as to-read Nov 13, Kevin Lee is currently reading it Dec 08, Rajesh Maguluri marked it as to-read Dec 12, Mohammed Alwayil added it Dec 17, Camila marked it as to-read Jan 05, Yusri marked it as to-read Jan 23, Abid Abdullah added it Feb 01, Wu Wen marked it as to-read Apr 12, Taehyun Song marked it as to-read May 19, Bhukya Krishna marked it as to-read Jun 12, Haroldo Meyer marked it as to-read Jul 21, Alvin Chummar added it Oct 19, Darlington marked it as to-read Nov 20, Suresh Prasad marked it as to-read Feb 03, Akio marked it as to-read Feb 28, There are no discussion topics on this book yet.

Books by Crane Valve. No trivia or quizzes yet. Crane's Technical Paper Started by binzee , Dec 17 This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic. Does any body have Crane's Technical Paper , if yes, please make it avaiable for download.

I think it isn't much, especially when you see what's inside I have 3 copies of Crane's Technical Paper No. I will assume the best impression of your post this time and take it that you don't know that you are dealing with copyrighted material - or that you don't know what copyrighted material represent.

I also assume the best from your character and upbringing: I have gone over this subject many times in the past and frankly am very disappointed that some ChE students still stoop to think that there are free lunches and free rides in this world.

That is true only in the criminal sense, when you steal from others, or take what is theirs without repaying them. However, even then there is a "payback" eventually. I believe Zauberberg, in trying to be polite, did not state it the same way I do. However, I also believe he would take the same position with respect to the property of others.

If we need what others have labored to produce, we must rightfully pay them for it. This is not only morally correct; it is also ethically correct. The two go hand-in-hand. I have taken all the examples from Crane's Tech Paper and converted them to an Excel Worksheet - to show how fluid flow problems are resolved on a spreadsheet.

I will share these with students on this Forum in the future. This is not a violation of copyrights. I did all the work and I'm not profiting from it.

However, to circumvent the sale of Crane's by copying it into a. The same thing applies when someone copies a simulation program and distributes it without permission from the owners. Please don't resort to doing that at least not on our Forums.


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Originally developed in , the CRANE Technical Paper No. (TP) is the quintessential guide to understanding the flow of fluid through valves, pipes, and fittings. The manual is intended for Design Engineers, Plant Engineers, Facility Managers, Maintenance Technicians, Mechanics, Building.

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Crane Technical Paper No. is the quintessential guide to understanding the flow of fluid through valves, pipes and fittings, enabling you to select the correct equipment for your piping system.

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Crane Technical Paper # is a true engineering fortune, compared to its low (economic) price. I believe many people, especially students, would like to catch as much occasions as they can - to reach expensive software or e-materials that are otherwise unaffordable to them. In the edition of Technical Paper , Crane Co. has now the pages of this paper. Pumps and Control Valves, critical well as Flow Meters, and several additional types of valves the content throughout. Many of the nomographs have been iv CRANE Flow of Fluids - Technical Paper No.

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Engineered Software, Inc. today announced the official release and shipment of the new edition of Crane’s Technical Paper No. Originally developed in , the CRANE Technical Paper No. (TP) is the quintessential guide to understanding the flow of fluid through valves, pipes, and fittings.